Religio-Political Talk: Mitt Romney

Showing posts with label Mitt Romney. Show all posts

Sunday, February 10, 2008

Wednesday, January 23, 2008

Romney says two dumb things while looking Mormon as ever! Listen for the "Bling Bling" reference to a baby near the end. At the beginning of the video he says during the photo opp - almost like singing the lyrics to the song, "Who let the dogs out... rough, rough." Embarrassing!

Is that the Door Bell?

Mormons at my Door,

or,

All and all, a good day!

I had Saturday off and was watching my nephews and my boys (not watching as much as making sure death did not occur with four boys being crazy – five including me), my wife was shopping at Sam’s Club and Wal-Mart. Just prior to her getting back my nephews were picked up (not by the police) and I came out to help unload the car. As I was doing so she asked what the guys with name tags on their shirts were that go door to door. Wondering why after almost twenty years of discussing such matters and having hundreds of books on both Mormon’s and Jehovah's Witnesses lining our walls she would be asking such a question I responded, “Mormon.”

She said, well, they just walked around the corner of our condo. Elated I started gathering my thoughts just in case they came to our door. Sure enough, as I was carrying in a heavier item I could see through our kitchen window two clean cut guys come to the door. I directed their attention through the screen of the opened kitchen window by telling them I would be with them in a moment . I gave the wife a glance and she gave me that “go get’em Tiger” look that Spidey gets from M.J.

So I went to the security door (Newhall) and opened it up and invited them in. They seemed happy about that since not too many people are so inviting. This glee was short-lived as they entered into my three-foot-by-three-foot foyer that has maybe eight tiles before opening up to our modest living/dining area. I say short-lived because in front of them, almost on every wall are bookcases with thousands of books. As their eyes adjusted and I ushered them onto a couch they asked if I had read all these books. I mentioned that I have read quite a few of them; some were for reference and others yet for future reading. As they sat and their eyes adjusted more they had on the opposite wall in front of where they were seated my shelf full of comparative religious books, articles, and encyclopedias of religion. Two shelves full of Mormon and Jehovah's Witness books, counter Mormon and Jehovah's Witness books, and first editions of many of their own literature. This is when the “glee” turned mainly into survival mode.

Click to Clear

Typically there is an elder “missionary” who has been in the field for some time and is very dedicated. The other elder (really boys) is typically new to the canvassing deal. He is being trained. I could tell right away who was old and who was new. The newbie was trying to take in all the titles, glancing around, seated forward on the coach. The oldie was relaxed and more comfortable in his position. I offered to fetch water – stressing that they were in water bottles – but to no avail (J-Dubs and Latts will never take food or drink from you, but I always ask as a friendly gesture). As I settled in the more experienced elder asked if he could pray. So we did. Afterwards they gave a quick speech about what they were doing and they asked if I had any questions. Mistake. Before I dug in I pointed to the copy of an old Weekly Standard issue sitting on my coffee table in front of them with Mitt on the cover trying to allay any anti-Mormon fears they may have after seeing my books. I mentioned that while I may not agree with Romney’s theology, I still will vote for him for President, so its not like I have a hatred or disdain for Mormons by any means, “I love and pray for you missionaries often” finishing my point off.

I said I do in fact have a question, and the question – I said – stems from this election year and the exchange a few months back between Huckabee and Romney. They were quick to say that the church does not support any one candidate, that they are politically neutral. After their disclaimer, I continued. I said in this exchange Huckabee mentioned that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, and Mitt’s response was that this is a canard used by people against the church (rough quote). So I asked them a question… before I continue, let me say that I have dealt with LDS for years, my friend and I would call the 1-800 number here and there to get the free copy of the Book of Mormon, brought by elders personally to the door of course, in order to discuss these weighty issues of theology with them. So I am familiar with most of the tactics they use. However, with Mitt in the race and the church taking advantage of this higher profile, I was “chomping at the bit” to hear what was going to come out of their mouths. Okay, back to my question. I asked this, “So, my question is this, and maybe you can answer it, are Lucifer and Jesus brothers?”

I got a decidedly more open answer than I expected, but they fell short of getting to the point of Heavenly Father (whom they consider God) and one of his wives having celestial sex in order to produce children whom relate to each other as siblings, making us all at least half-brothers and sisters (as there are many wives/goddesses in the Mormon heaven). So I got into it for them, but before I did, I thanked them for the answer I had already received… trying to be low in voice and mannerism while also being polite. I started to explain that most Mormon theologians and philosophers go further and tell us that Heavenly Father was himself birthed by a father and mother on a planet somewhat similar to ours, but even prior to that he was born in a heaven not too different than the one they mentioned in their answer, and that that “God” that gave birth to their “God” also had parents, and so on… ad infinitum.

I explained a bit how an actual regress of infinite events is impossible, giving the example of our universe, saying, that if the universe or cosmos was eternal, the useable energy in the universe would have been used up an infinite time ago… explaining that the sun is burning off energy and that at some point the entire cosmos will die a “heat death.” This shows that we live in a finite cosmos and that whatever got it started is outside even the space/time continuum. Which is – I pointed out – much different than what Mormon theology states about their God. They disagreed with me but I politely asked if I could explain more. (The newbie was enthrawled… I could tell, he said yes… that’s an “ooops” that the more experienced guy will discuss with him later. So I did.)

I mentioned the contradistinction between LDS “creation” and historic Christian “creation” theology. I said in Mormon theology Heavenly Father didn’t create the first eye, or kidney, or coccyx and make sure that this information would continue on in the production of offspring with that information encoded in DNA and RNA. I stressed that in Mormon theology when Heavenly Father was born to his parents they had eyes already, because even his parents parents parents had the genetic code physically for eyes, thus passing on (not creating ex nihilo) genetic information from previous generations. The Mormon “God” didn’t create the eye, he merely performed a sexual act which continued his lineage. The historic Christian belief is that God not only created the first eye, liver, toe, and the like, but even spoke time into being as well as the environment and all the genetic machines to make sure this newly developed/created code would continue.

I then brought up something else that crossed my mind a few months back in a discussion on this blog about almost the same issue (really, a debate of sorts... the person finding my blog via comments I left at the Washington Times blog), and that is that matter and gods predated the Heavenly Father of this world. I asked them why they think that whenever an atheist debates the issue of God they never debate against the Mormon concept of God? The newbie was quick (“ooops” number two) to say he didn’t know, I then said, I will tell you. “It is because he would be arguing against himself.”

This time I got an inquisitive look from both of them. “Let me explain why this is,” and so I continued. I mentioned that when a person is born here on earth matter (atoms, quarks, dirt, water, air, etc) doesn’t begin to exist at the same time they are conceived, matter, in fact predated them. The earth, the stars, and the like were here long before the hypothetical 45-year old atheist. Not only that, but natural laws such as the law of gravity, the laws of motion – right then the new guy chimes in with a law (for the life of me I cannot remember what it was, but at this point he is helping me make my case… Classic!) – were also before this person being born and so, this person is subject to them. In the same way when Heavenly Father was birthed in his heaven first by his “Godley” parents he was born into an environment that worked with laws in place, even granting he was born with a spiritual body. I granted that in this heaven the laws may be a bit different -- hypothetically speaking -- but that laws had to be in place nonetheless, even genetic parameters (DNA, amino acids, etc) were in place and that this God was subject to them, much like the “gods” of Grecian lore, even being controlled by wild emotions.

Heavenly Father

Born into an environment that imposes forces on him that are both older than him and because of their (these laws) imposing forces on him (gravity, causality, entropy, etc) while he has to live in a body that can only take up that space where he is, is, well, more powerful than he.

Atheist

Born into an environment that imposes forces on him that are both older than him and because of their (these laws) imposing on him (gravity, causality, entropy, etc) while he has to live in a body that can only take up that space where he is, is, well, more powerful than he.

Again I pointed out that in classical Judeo-Christian theistic thinking, God created even the laws of the weak and strong nuclear force and the like. Material, energy, even time was brought into existence at some point by my God. I then mentioned that “I was going to use a phrase by someone smarter than I and say that ‘there God is too small’.” At that point the seasoned young man chimed in and said that the church doesn’t teach officially that Heavenly Father was born to parents like us. at which point I got up, walked over to my bookshelf and pulled my copy of “Achieving Celestial Marriage (Student Manual)” off the shelf and brought it over to where I was seated and sat. I turned it over to the back cover and asked them who published the book I was holding. They of course did not what this book was, all they know knew was upon looking at the familiar “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” emblem that the book was published by their church – officially. The sinking feeling was tangible.

I turned it over to reveal that this was a manual for couples to read prior to being married in the Temple, an official student manual to be exact. I opened up to page 129 and read the second emboldened title down the page aloud, “GOD WAS ONCE A MORTAL MAN” (capitals in the original), and then I read the next line underneath that that reads as follows, “He Lived on an Earth like Our Own.” The seasoned guy squirmed, the new guy almost right then went to his testimony, where I cut him off quite forcibly by saying I have a testimony of my own, and I gave what I could remember of my paragraph response when they give their testimony:

I too have a testimony… I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus is the Christ and Savior of the world… that He died for my sins and was resurrected. I know that I am saved by grace and not by works and will inherit heaven upon that principle. I also know that God hears and answers prayer. I know all this not only by the feeling I have from the inner witness of the Holy Ghost but by the reliability of God's Word, the Bible, which declares it to be so. And, I also know that because of my relationship with Christ, Jesus has changed my life and continues to bless me!

… thus, beating him to the punch not allowing him to close the discussion (one) and two not letting him feel secure in this all too often used psychology of shabby belief.

I then asked the seasoned guy if this book published by his church was wrong. He then went to the line about a person (referencing me) coming into a story near the end when the plot, foreshadowing, actors, etc, were already well developed. I asked again. He acquiesced and said that this is what is taught. I quickly moved on. I mentioned again that because of this that their “God” is too small, and is not all-powerful or all-knowing like the Judeo-Christian God (again, I knew this would hook them into at least another short round of discussion). The new guy said “Heavenly Father is all-knowing and all-powerful,” to which the seasoned guy affirmed. I pointed out that this is impossible because if Heavenly Father were truly born to parents on a planet similar to ours that much like people here he could have been an atheist for the first half of his life, or worse. Bringing up Moses being a murderer as well as King David, so too could have Heavenly Father killed and even done time in jail only then finding the similar path to exultation via a similar Mormon doctrine.

Following this hypothetical, I said he grew in knowledge and understanding, and Mormon theologians say he is still earning new things. I asked them to affirm with me as well as the Book of Abraham that God lives on a planet near the planet Kolob. They did. I asked them to affirm that he has a physical flesh-and-blood body, they affirmed that. I said then his all-knowing status is diminished merely because he is confined to what he see’s and hears where he is at at that time. Making him finite. I did grant that he may know more than them, but surely not what the future brings. This also is different than classical theism. I got up again and grabbed another book entitled "The New Mormon Challenge" and read the reviews off the back by Mormon professors and apologists stating that this book was the most respectful, well thought attempt to discuss these important matters with their fellow Mormons. I said if they were to leave here with any new challenges to their faith at all that they should in the least - when they get home - get a copy of this book and read it... again I stressed the Mormon scholars who wrote positively of the book.

The seasoned guy went to his testimony and right when he was going to tell me about the burning in his bosom - I cut him off and asked who in the Bible shoots fiery arrows? He said, “Satan.” I then said, until you can substantiate a feeling in your chest by something other than the feeling itself, I cannot accept that this burning sensation is Godly. Almost forcibly I said (beating them to the “we have to go” speech… controlling even their exit like the conversation), “before you two leave my house, I want to read a Scripture to you,” I reached for my worn King James version of the Bible and opened up to Ephesians 1:8-9:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not by yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Man I tell you the Spirit leaped at those gospel words! I stressed that I had touched on many philosophical ideas and challenges to their faith, but that if they wish to come back and discuss this verse and others, I will always be here" (looking at the new guy as I said it).

As they got up I mentioned that my prayer for them was to come to realize that there is rest in Jesus, that salvation is already waiting for their affirmative response and not because of whom they please at their church. And off they went.

I went back to the end of my garage after shelving my books to grab the rest of the heavy items for my wife who so graciously allowed me to interact with lost souls. As I walked out the back to the car, they were getting in their truck (yes, no bicycles), and I hollered after them, “have a good day guys, and remember, I am always here for discussion.” As the wife came in from the back as well after a conversation with a neighbor, she said “Their leaving?” I responded, “Yup, no more door-to-door today, they definitely had more condo’s to go, but after this condo they have to go back and deprogram all this new information they just got…. I scared them away honey.” “You did baby, you did,” was her reply.

What a great Saturday. Got to see my nephews, my wife brought home food, and I got to plant the seed of both doubt about the Mormon worldview as well as planting the a seed of the gospel message.

Kimba, I had to throw this cartoon in for you... thought you would enjoy it. The cartoonist is of course of a more moderate descent than I... but I still enjoy his wit and style.

Here is his front page

and, this is the page I retrieved the above cartoon. Enjoy

Sunday, December 30, 2007

LDS Theology - Official Church Student Manual (Click to Enlarge)

Mitt Romney & Starting to Learn - 0

Papa Giorgio - 1

Click to Enlarge

Saturday, December 29, 2007

Romney vs. LDS Theology

To be (a Mormon) or not to be (a Mormon)

Hot Air (props)

This is the question… does he really not understand Mormon Theology? Or is he trying to sound as “Christian” as possible?

Thursday, December 13, 2007

Mitt Romney's Faith -- More Reflection

A recent blog over at the Washington Times hones in on the issues surrounding Mitt Romney a bit more than most other papers dare to be. So here I will post a promised video as well as the original blog entitled “Jesus and Lucifer: Spirit brothers?”, by Julia Duin. First, the video for the curious, then the Washington Times blog:

Watch the audio levels…

I wasn't planning to deal with some of the more esoteric corners of Mormon doctrine today, but the blogs are humming about the Jesus-Lucifer connection. It's the same question Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee is said to ask in an upcoming Dec. 16 New York Times magazine interview, "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"

Associated Press leaked part of the magazine story late Tuesday.

Mr. Huckabee, who is running neck-in-neck with former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a Mormon, knows there are places in Mormonism where Mr. Romney's campaign does not want to go.

Most of you may think Americans can't discuss theology, but a copy of the AP article posted on breitbart.com had 220 comments by mid-afternoon Wednesday, many of which dissected Mormon doctrine.

Breitbart had also posted a debate Mr. Romney had about his faith with a radio talk show host in Des Moines, Iowa; however, by mid-afternoon Wednesday, the link was not operating. Hmmmm.

"It's interesting we're having this teachable moment," Gary Cass, chairman of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission told me. "If Romney becomes president, you will get a knock on your door and a nice-looking missionary saying, "Would you like to hear about the faith of our president?"

Adding that he grew up among Mormons in Las Vegas, "Mormons have redefined all our terms but most Christians don't know that," he said. "And most people in the media are theologically illiterate."

He's got that last part right. This morning, I was in a meeting with two of apostles from the church's Quorum of Twelve. They were making the rounds of newspaper editorial boards this week to better explain their religion to media who don't get it.

They gave a group of us at the Times some impressive statistics of a 12.8-million-member religion with 53,000 roving missionaries in 178 countries. Since 1985, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has given out $705 million in humanitarian assistance.

But when I asked M. Russell Ballard and Quentin R. Cook about the spirit brother question, they dodged it.

All they would say is that Jesus was the son of God and Lucifer was a fallen angel.

Yes, but what about a pre-historic time before Lucifer fell?

So I began trolling about. First I looked at a document, dated Janury 2000, that the two men left me. Also posted on the front page of LDS.org, it is called "The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles."

It says "(Jesus) was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament."

Then I learned that several LDS apostles and luminaries, including Spencer W. Kimball, president of the church from 1973 to 1985, had referred to God having two spirit sons known as Lucifer and Jehovah.

Here is another Mormon-related site that explains the "spirit brother" connection. Basically, there was an incident before the dawn of time when God knew he would have to send down a savior. Two of his spirit sons, Jesus and Lucifer, volunteered. This is explained in Abraham 3:27 and Moses 4, both chapters in the "Pearl of Great Price," one of the LDS scriptures. When God chose Jesus, Lucifer rebelled.

The rest, as they say, is pre-history.

I will now post my input on the issue:

Thank you sooo much! Not too many papers are dealing with this aspect of the discussion which we can only scratch the surface of here. Much Appreciated WT.

Being a conservative Evangelical, I am wrestling with this theology almost like the first time I encountered it nearly twenty years ago. After studying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons for nearly that long, it was old-hat, so-to-speak. Now, however, it is washed in a newness that has infected even the counter-cult websites. Now Mormon eschatology is being rooted around for, since many believe these are the "end-times," trying to fit every President in some manner to the New World Order and other intricate beliefs of our depraved minds… this time is no different than the six letters of Reagan's name, the "secret society" Bush Sr. belonged to, the supposed executive orders granting Clinton -- via FEMA -- control over our lives, and little Bush… now thought to be Satan himself by some holding posters in anti-war "marches" (e.g., really, anti-Bush, anti-capitalism, pro-veganism marches). The possibility of a rational discussion about theology -- given the wildness in thought from the Left, and the almost cavalier belief about core-truths in regards to religious beliefs -- is not in the cards. The McLaughlin Group proved that.

All that being said, the question that ultimately needs answering is this: would I vote for Romney if the Republican nominee. That answer is always a resounding "yes."

So the deeper philosophical questions about the impossibility of an infinite regress of gods being born to other gods (See: The Mormon Concept of God: A Philosophical Analysis by Francis Beckwith & Stephen Parish) is an exercise in futility – politically speaking.

In regards to (as a footnote here) that interview of Romney via that radio show, I have isolated a portion of that "debate/interview" that will make the brow of the eschatological fans rise. In the portion I isolated, which I will repost at my site, Mitt Romney mentions a Mormon author, Cleon Skousen. While Mitt wasn't referring in his mentioning him all the authors' works, I would be curious as to which of the authors books Mitt has read. Cleon Skousen wrote a couple of classics in conspiratorial thought (which I use to swallow "whole clothe") which are entitled for the investigative mind:

The Naked Communist; and, The Naked Capitalist.

These are usually found in any John Birch book store right next to Tragedy and Hope, by Carol Quigley, and None Dare Call it Conspiracy, by Gary Allen. This conspiratorial view that is now working its way into the back streets of the Leftist mind first came from us Conservatives (unfortunately). So the fact that Joseph Smith was a Freemason and many of the Temple ordinances are from Masonic rituals will not help in keeping this discussion grounded in rational thinking.

OoHh! … the pains of having read 1,800 [+] books cover-to-cover are now hitting home in my mind!

Papa Giorgio

;}

A quick synopsis from Watchman.org explaining the "Mormon Jesus:"

Now for a little Cleon himself... take note near the end he references the ideas of the "war-in-'hevaen'" that caused (according to LDS theology) people to be born with black skin:

Thursday, December 06, 2007

Mitt for President? Great Speach by Mitt

As a person who has studied Mormonism for twenty years, this doesn’t come easy. What doesn’t come easy? being able to support a Mormon in the position of the presidency. Some commentary of the matter swayed me a bit… one commentator mentioned that some of our Founders and Presidents were Unitarian. Unitarians have “cultish” views of the Deity of Christ in my mind’s eye. But these men that helped found this nation were exemplary politicians:

Another comment about it is that from the Mormon belief comes a marrying of the American principles and culture, especially that of conservative principles. This is another argument FOR him as Presidency. I enjoin those who visit to listen to his speech and consider voting for him with a clear conscious… his “exultation” aside… which is a future event.

Wednesday, December 05, 2007

LDS (Mormon) Theology of God - Mitt's Dilemma

Heavenly Father (e.g., the Mormon God) was Once a Man

This is an imported article... there isn't one better for a quick summary of the teachings of the Mormon Church on the nature of God and that "he" was once a man. A reader of the blog below asked for this referencing. While I do not have time to post such a response, I will let those at Mormons in Transition do it, since they do it well. Mormons in Transition are part of a great ministry, Institute for Religious Research (IRR), that I resource much. Another great source, and I know the son of the guy who started the ministry, is, Mormon Research Ministry (MRM). This ministry is focusing in on the white house as of late and a Mormon running for it.

Enjoy.

Article Link

Introduction

Joseph Smith apparently wanted to set his followers straight when he proclaimed the following at the Mormon Church's General Conference in April, 1844:

I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us.... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol. 6, 305-307, emphasis added)

Subsequent Mormon leaders have been just as clear, like General Authority Milton R. Hunter, who wrote:

Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar that through which we are now passing (The Gospel Through the Ages, 1945, p 104).

But recently I’ve noticed changes — changes in what Mormon Missionaries teach investigators, changes in Mormon teaching manuals, changes in what Mormon people say about their own Church’s doctrine.

Ask the Missionaries

What is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) teaching its members about who God is and what He is like? Does it teach non-members anything different? To find out I called two different Mormon missionary residences in my city. At the first number Elder Fieldcrest¹ answered the phone. He was cordial and very willing to answer my questions on the nature of God. I asked two:

The first was, “Has God always been God, complete with all attributes of omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience?” His answer was “Yes. God has always been God.”

My next question was equally straightforward: “Was God once a man like us?” His immediate answer was “No.” When I asked does the Mormon Church teach that God was once a man, he said “No.” He went on to say that there is no specific teaching on that. God does have a body of flesh and bones, but he was never a man like us.

Two hours later I received a call back from the other missionary residence where I had left a message. This time I talked with Sister Sansburg. I asked her the same two questions. To the question “Has God always been God?” there was a pause and then “No. God was once a man.” I then asked, “So does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teach that God was once man like us?” To which, after a slightly longer pause, she answered “Yes.”

Two Mormon missionaries, trained at the same Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah, working in the same city, but they gave two very different answers to these important questions on the nature of God. What’s happening? I believe it is the result of a deliberate attempt on the part of Mormon leaders to cloak certain teachings that are disturbing to non-members and investigators of the Church. Teachings like:

God the Father has not always been God, but was once a man like us

God had to “progress” to his current status of godhood

Men (but only Mormon men) can progress to be Gods like Heavenly Father

During the course of my conversation with Sister Sansburg I found out she had been raised Mormon. I assumed this was why she so openly and candidly spoke about God having been a man. I was wrong. Instead she told me she had assumed all her life God had always been God, but it was only while she was on her mission that she learned God was once a man who had progressed to Godhood. It was a “deep doctrine” (her words) that she learned from fellow missionaries during private discussions. She made it clear that as Mormon missionaries they never teach this doctrine to investigators, nor was it ever taught to the missionaries during her missionary training.

The evidence indicates that in recent years the Mormon Church has become aware that the non-LDS public is uncomfortable and even offended with its long-standing doctrinal teaching that God the Father was once a man like us. It would appear that this and related teachings, ie. men can progress to become Gods, is a hindrance to the growth of the Mormon Church, and has led to the deliberate withholding of this information from nonmembers and even its own missionaries. How important is this issue? To answer that question this article will look at three related areas:

How important is a correct understanding of the nature of God?

Has the teaching that God was once a man like us been a core or central doctrine of the Mormon Church historically speaking?

What evidence indicates that the Mormon church will neither repudiate this doctrine, nor openly admit it or teach it to non-members?

I will conclude the article with some recommendations on how Christians can more effectively approach Mormon people in light of this information.

Does it Matter What You Believe?

Having a truly biblical understanding of the nature of God, knowing who He has revealed himself to be, is at the heart of what it means to be an evangelical Christian. For those who accept the authority of the Bible, it is not only important that we be restored to a right relationship with God, but that we are in relationship with the right God – the One True God who has disclosed himself in the Bible. This is underscored in passages like Isaiah 45:18, 21:

I am the Lord and there is no other … there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved all you ends of the earth; for I am God and there is no other.

Turn to the wrong God, or a man-made god and you miss out on salvation, for authentic faith requires knowledge of the true Gospel and the One True God.

Consider Acts 4:24 where upon the release of Peter and John from jail, the people raise their voices together in prayer to God, “Sovereign Lord, you made the heavens and the earth and everything in them.” Prior to that Peter and John said “Salvation is found in none other” (Acts 4:12).

LDS people who are theologically inclined would agree. Mormon General Authority, Bruce R. McConkie, stated clearly and emphatically:

There is no salvation in worshiping a false god—neither a cow; nor a crocodile; nor a cedar post; nor even a spirit essence, without body, parts, or passions, that fills the immensity of space. (Bruce R. McConkie, “The Caravan Moves On,” Ensign, Nov. 1984, 82, emphasis added)

Yet many Mormons appear to have little concern for how accurate their or another person’s concept of God is. That is because within Mormonism, one’s concept of God is increasingly less important to one’s identity, acceptance or significance within the Mormon culture or community. One’s personal understanding of the nature of God beyond the fact that He is personal and our Father in Heaven, seems of lessening significance within the theological and social system of Mormonism. I must note here, however, that the Mormon Church does continue to emphasize that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

What has happened to the teaching that God was once a man like us? Was it ever really an important doctrine, or was it simply, as Elder Fieldcrest explained, an idea held by some early Mormons, but never specifically taught?

History of the Teaching – LDS Leaders Speak

Joseph Smith, revered as the founding prophet of the Mormon Church, first publicly taught that “God himself was once as we are now” and that men would have “to learn how to be Gods” in 1844. He did so toward the end of his life and heralded it as both a distinctive doctrine of Mormonism and a departure from the previously accepted truth about God the Father. According to Joseph Smith, to know for a certainty the character of God was “the first principle of the Gospel,” leaving little doubt as to its importance and centrality. It should be no surprise then, that subsequent Mormon leaders have consistently taught and affirmed this teaching up until recent years. What follows are quotes from Mormon leaders.

Joseph Smith – Prophet, President

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... …I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol. 6, 305-307, emphasis added)

Following Joseph’s death, several leaders vied for the right to lead the church. Among the issues that divided them, beside their competing claims to be Joseph’s legitimate successor, were Joseph’s secret teaching and practice of polygamy and Joseph’s recently introduced concept that God had not always been God, but was a once a man. Eventually, a sizable number of Latter day Saints, including Joseph’s widow Emma, joined together in following Joseph’s oldest living son, Joseph Smith III. This movement, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, broke with all the doctrinal innovations of the Nauvoo period, rejecting as unbiblical, polygamy, plurality of Gods, the elaborate Masonic-based temple ceremonies introduced to help men progress to being Gods, as well as the Book of Abraham.

The great majority of Mormons, however, united under the leadership of Brigham Young, who at Joseph’s death was head of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Young embraced Joseph’s teachings on plural wives, plurality of Gods, and temple ordinances leading to godhood and continued to promote these among the Latter-day Saints he led west.

Brigham Young – Prophet, 2^nd President

He [God] is our Father - the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. (Journal of Discourses 7:333)

The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself. (Journal of Discourses 3:93)

George Q. Cannon – First Presidency

Well, who was His [Jesus’] father? Why God was His father; and who was God’s father? Why God had a father like you and I have. …

Heavenly Father once a mortal man. Every child knows that its earthly father had a father, and its grandfather had a father, and so on back as far as they can be traced; it can believe also that if it lives to become a man or a woman, it will also have children.

The Prophet Joseph teaches us that our Heavenly Father was once a man and dwelt on an earth like we do upon this one and that He has gone on from step to step, from one degree of glory and exaltation to another, until He now rules and governs. (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth: Discourses and Writings of President George Q. Cannon, selected, arranged, and edited by Jerreld L. Newquist [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1987], 101.)

Elder Melvin J. Ballard – Apostle

“It is a ‘Mormon’ truism that is current among us and we all accept it, that as man is God once was and as God is man may become.” (General Conference address, April 6, 1921)

Milton R. Hunter – General Authority

Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar that through which we are now passing. He became God – an exalted being – through obedience to the same eternal Gospel truths that we are given opportunity today to obey. (The Gospel Through the Ages, 1945, p 104).

In June, 1840, Lorenzo Snow formulated the following the famous couplet: “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” This doctrine, when first announced by the Prophet and later restated by Elder Snow, was astounding to Christendom, since the teachers as well as the laity had long ago ceased to regard man as being of such magnitude. Even today it is still a doctrine understood primarily by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (The Gospel Through the Ages, 1945, p 105-106).

Hunter supports his affirmation that Mormon prophets have continuously taught this sublime truth by citing such LDS leaders Joseph F. Smith, Orson Hyde and Daniel H. Wells.

Joseph Fielding Smith – Prophet, 10^th President

God is an exalted man. Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith ... that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man... (Doctrines of Salvation 1:10, 1954)

Bruce R. McConkie - Apostle

...God...is a personal Being, a holy and exalted man... (Mormon Doctrine, 1966 edition p. 250)

Other Mormons Speak

While the following quotes are not from LDS spiritual leadership, they indicate that some Mormon apologists and academics acknowledge this Mormon teaching on the nature of God.

Michael Fordham (Mormon apologist)

Everything Latter-day Saints teach about God is in agreement with the rest of the Christian world, with the exception of His nature (Mormon apologist Michael W. Fordham, “Does Gordon B. Hinckley Understand Mormon Doctrine?” http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc09.html emphasis added).

Robert L. Millet (Professor, Brigham Young University)

Knowing what we know concerning God our Father — that he is a personal being; that he has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as our own; that he is an exalted and glorified being; that he was once a man and dwelt on an earth - and knowing that this knowledge was had by many of the ancients, should we be surprised to find legends and myths throughout the cultures of the earth concerning gods who have divine power but human attributes and passions? (BYU Professor Robert L. Millet, “The Eternal Gospel,” Ensign, July 1996, pg.53 emphasis added)²

Books and Periodicals

Achieving a Celestial Marriage, 1976, p. 129. GOD WAS ONCE A MORTAL MAN (1-2) He lived on an Earth like Our Own. “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret.”

Temple Preparation Seminar Discussions, 1978, p. 8. Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God.” (Joseph F. Smith, John R Winder, and Anthon H. Lund, Messages of the First Presidency, James R. Clark, ed., Bookcraft, 4:203, 205-6.)

Gospel Principles, 1978, p. 6. What Kind of Being is God? The Prophet Joseph Smith said: “If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all the worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today you would see him like a man in form…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). God is a glorified and perfected man, a personage of flesh and bones. Inside his tangible body is an eternal spirit (see D&C 130:22)

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young (published by the church as an official lesson manual 1997 [text “approved 10/95”], p. 29):

President Brigham Young taught ... that God the Father was once a man on another planet who 'passed the ordeals we are now passing through...

[Subhead] He Received a Revelation About Man’s Divine Potential

… the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me … As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.

Note this famous couplet is heralded as a “revelation” from God given to the 5^th President and Prophet of the Mormon Church.³

Ensign magazine, January 2006 (an official publication of the Mormon Church)

In an article titled “The Nature of the Godhead” LDS Apostle Elder Dallin Oaks is quoted:

The Prophet Joseph Smith once taught: “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, … that he was once a man like us …” (Ensign, January 2006, p. 51).⁴

This sampling, though brief, is enough to demonstrate that key teachings like the following are core doctrines:

God the Father was once a man like us

God progressed to Godhood, and that

Men likewise can evolve into Gods

These concepts have been consistently taught since the days of Joseph Smith. These teachings not only define the Mormon Church’s beliefs on the nature of God, but also render the Mormon belief system decidedly not-Christian. In fact, in this area, Mormonism is as different from historic Christianity as other recognized non-Christian religious traditions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam. Because most people with a Judaeo-Christian background recognize the non-Christian nature of these beliefs, there is an immediate tension created when the Mormon Church introduces these unbiblical, unChristian teachings and at the same time claims to be a Christian Church, indeed, the only Christian Church.

Keep the Investigators Comfortable

I suggest that this increasing tension has been a catalyst for an increasingly dishonest portrayal of Mormon beliefs to the public in general and to potential converts more specifically. In an attempt to minimize the tension and keep investigators comfortable while they learn about the Mormon Church, Mormon leaders have omitted disturbing, non-Christian teachings from their official manuals, public discourses, missionary training, pageants and temple open houses and both official and unofficial websites. Even the current Mormon President has been less than forthright in public interviews on this subject.

1. Books and Manuals

Gospel Principles is a teaching manual of the Mormon Church, published continuously in various editions since 1978. This 47 chapter manual is studied, in a Sunday School class format, chapter by chapter throughout the year to teach the fundamentals of the LDS faith to new members and investigators. This section will highlight some of the changes made to various editions that are relevant to the subject of this paper and suggest why these are significant.

Gospel Principles, 1978

Chapter 1, p. 6

What Kind of Being is God? The Prophet Joseph Smith said: “If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all the worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today you would see him like a man in form…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). God is a glorified and perfected man, a personage of flesh and bones. Inside his tangible body is an eternal spirit (see D&C 130:22)

In chapter one the class is introduced to the idea that God is a glorified man. However, the quote from Joseph Smith that is used, ellipses out the section of Joseph’s sermon that says God was once a man like us. This is not covered until the final chapter, chapter 47.

Chapter 47, pp. 289-290, 293

What is Exaltation? Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation. (GP, 289-290, emphasis added)

This is the way our Heavenly Father became a God. Joseph Smith taught, “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God … he was once a man like us; ... God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-46, emphasis added).

When the Gospel Principles manual is used in the Gospel Essentials Sunday School class, this final chapter of the book is covered about a year after the start of the class, meaning those in the class have been members of the LDS church for nearly a year or more, and have likely developed strong social and emotional connections to the Church.⁵ Two key teachings that were skirted or avoided at the beginning of the class are now presented clearly. First, men can become Gods – capital G – like Heavenly Father, this is what it means to achieve exaltation. Second, we are simply repeating an already established process, doing what God the Father has already done before us. This is the doctrine of eternal progression. Men become Gods, who are then able to create other men who in turn can also progress to become Gods, who repeat the process indefinitely. Up through the 1980s the Mormon Church taught these doctrines in clear, unmistakable terms. The 1981 and 1988 editions of Gospel Principles, while undergoing some format changes (smaller size, new cover design, adding an index) introduced no textual changes I’m aware of.

Criticism and falling convert ratios

However, by the late 1980s, among other things, the Mormon Church was receiving increasing scrutiny and criticism for its non-Christian and non-biblical teaching that there were many Gods, God the Father was once a man like us, and men could eventually become Gods, like God the Father. Whether there is a direct correlation or not, it is noteworthy that the Mormon Church had it’s highest ratio of converts baptized to full-time missionaries in 1989 (8.0 converts per missionary), only to fall steadily through 1992 to a 13-year low of 6.0 converts per missionary. It was in 1992 that the Mormon Church introduced it’s first significant textual revisions to Gospel Principles (approved for publication 11/91).⁶

Significant Changes

Gospel Principles, 1992

Chapter 1, p. 9

No change from previous editions. The Joseph Smith quote is still in place.

Chapter 47, p. 302, 305

What is Exaltation? Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become ~~Gods~~ like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation. (GP, 302)

This is the way our Heavenly Father became a God. Joseph Smith taught, “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God … he was once a man like us; ... God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-46).

Though small, both these changes remove key words and de-emphasize multiplicity of Gods and men becoming Gods.

Gospel Principles, 1997

Chapter 1, p. 9

In this edition the paragraph above with the Joseph Smith quote is removed entirely. In its place is the following:

Because we are made in his image (see Moses 6:9), we know that God has a body that looks like ours. His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones (see D&C 130:22). God’s body, however is perfected and glorified, with a glory beyond all description. (GP, p. 9)

Since 1997, those using this manual are not even exposed to the resource Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith until they reach the end of the book. And when it is discussed, the references to being “Gods” like Heavenly Father have been removed since 1992.

Chapter 47, p. 302, 305 (No additional changes from 1992 edition)

Another LDS Church manual that has been edited, perhaps to avoid drawing attention to the teaching that God was once a man like us, is Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: JOSEPH F. SMITH, published in 1998.

On page 337 of this LDS Church manual introducing members to the teachings of the Church’s 6^th President on the idea of becoming “like” God is the following:

…We must become like [God]; peradventure to sit upon thrones, to have dominion, power, and eternal increase. God designed this in the beginning. … This is the object of our existence in the world

What is omitted by the ellipsis? Here is quote as it appears in an earlier Mormon Church-published book, Gospel Doctrine: Selections from the Sermons and Writings of Joseph F. Smith, Deseret Book Co., 1939, p. 63, with the significant portion of the ellipsed material in bold.

In other words we must become like him; peradventure to sit upon thrones, to have dominion, power, and eternal increase. God designed this in the beginning. We are the children of God. He is an eternal being, without beginning of days or end of years. He always was, he is, he always will be. We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or similar ordeal.

Thus, while the 1939 book containing the teachings of President Joseph F. Smith made it clear that God the Father once shared a condition that is the same as ours today, current Mormon Church leaders omitted his clear teaching from the modern manual.

2. Mormon Pageants and Temple Open Houses

The Mormon Church produces a number of pageants that celebrate its unique history and tell the story of Mormonism with dramatic reenactments featuring casts of hundreds of performers. Yet, seldom, if ever, do these lavish performances provide accurate information on Joseph Smith’s distinctive teachings on God being a man like us and men becoming Gods. Here are a couple of examples.

Mormon Miracle Pageant – Manti, Utah

The Mormon Miracle Pageant, performed each June on the grounds of the Manti Temple in Manti, Utah, attracted 77,500 visitors during 8 days of performances in 2006. However, while the performance featured a lengthy segment on the life, teaching and death of Joseph Smith, there was no mention of Joseph’s “God was once a man like us” teaching.⁷

Nauvoo Pageant: a Tribute to Joseph Smith – Nauvoo, Illinois

Similarly, Nauvoo Pageant: a Tribute to Joseph Smith, which in 2005 replaced the City of Joseph pageant in Nauvoo, Illinois, omitted key material from one of its side performances – the King Follett Discourse. According to a ministry colleague, Sharon Lindbloom (Mormon Coffee blog), who attended the pageant both last year and this year (2006), an actor portraying Joseph Smith recited excerpts from this historic sermon delivered at the LDS Church’s 1844 April General Conference. However, in contrast to the previous year, the 2006 version of the presentation was noticeably sanitized. Gone were all the references to God was once a man like us and the need for men to need to learn to become Gods themselves, the same as all other Gods before them had done.⁸

Mormon Temple Open Houses

I have attended over 12 Mormon Temple open houses on three different continents in the last 6 years and at each one the unique Mormon teachings on God, men and role of Mormon temples in helping men become Gods were omitted. Furthermore, on multiple occasions when I had opportunity after the tour to ask questions in a public context with other people standing around and listening, the Mormon missionaries, Mormon leaders and Mormon tour guides I spoke to nearly always denied the existence of many of these doctrines, accusing me of inventing lies to discredit the Mormon Church. They persisted in these denials until I produced an official Mormon manual and began to document my point. Then the denials often turned to strong affirmations and a defense of the teaching that had been denied moments earlier.

A recent web article records similar incidents of deliberate deception by LDS Church representatives at the August 2006 open house of the Sacramento, California Mormon Temple.⁹

3. LDS Online materials

The Mormon Church provides extensive material on its website www.mormon.org on the subject of who is God and what is he like, and yet in page after page of material there is no mention of God once being a man like us, there is no mention of exaltation to godhood, there is no mention of God being a mortal man, who lived on his own earth and progressed to becoming a God, nor that man is supposed to follow a plan of eternal progression and also eventually become a God. A person could not come to know that Mormon prophets, apostles and leaders taught consistently and repeatedly as a key doctrine, up until at least the 1960’s and 70’s, that God the Father was once a man like us. For the investigator and general public, that information is not readily available.

Also online, from the July 2006 Ensign, is an intriguing statement by the current Prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley in his First Presidency Message, “In These Three I Believe.”

I recall reading a tract some years ago written by a critic, an enemy of the Church whose desire was to undermine the faith of the weak and the unknowing. The tract repeated fallacies that had been parroted for a century and more. It purported to set forth what you and I, as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, believe.

Without wishing to argue with any of our friends of other faiths, many of whom I know and for whom I have the highest regard, I take this opportunity to set forth my position on this most important of all theological subjects.

I believe without equivocation or reservation in God the Eternal Father. He is my Father, the Father of my spirit, and the Father of the spirits of all men. He is the great Creator, the Ruler of the universe. He directed the Creation of this earth on which we live. In His image man was created. He is personal. He is real. He is individual. He has “a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22). (http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,2043-1-3470-1,00.html, or Ensign, July 2006, p. 3).

It is unfortunate that President Hinckley did not identify for his audience the “fallacies that had been parroted for a century and more” and thus set the record straight. Nevertheless, in this public discourse, specifically designed to articulate his beliefs, and by extension the beliefs of the Mormon Church, President Hinckley omitted any mention of God being man, progressing to Godhood, or having a goddess wife. President Hinckley has also avoided such disturbing Mormon teachings in various media interviews, which we will examine next.

4. Public Statements of the Current Prophet – Gordon B Hinckley

Don Lattin, religion editor for the San Francisco Chronicle, interviewed President Hinckley on April 13, 1997. Please keep in mind this comes less than a year after the Ensign article by BYU professor Robert Millet that stated, “Knowing what we know concerning God our Father -- … that he was once a man and dwelt on an earth.”

Don Lattin (religion editor, interviewing Gordon B. Hinckley, San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997, p 3/Z1)

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs [and other Christian churches]. For instance, don’t Mormons believe that God was once a man?

Hinckley: I wouldn’t say that. There was a little couplet coined, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.” Now that’s more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about. [emphasis added]

Q: So you’re saying the church is still struggling to understand this?

Hinckley: Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly. We believe that the glory of God is intelligence and whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the Resurrection. ...that’s one thing that’s different. Modern revelation. We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, we believe he has yet to reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

In another interview, later that same year, we find President Hinckley claiming to be ignorant of whether the church really teaches that God was once a man.

Gordon B. Hinckley, Time Magazine, quote, Aug 4, 1997:

On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man,

[Hinckley] sounded uncertain, ‘I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don’t know a lot about it, and I don’t think others know a lot about it.’

Luke Wilson, Executive Director of the Institute for Religious Research, wrote the LDS Church about this, querying the office of the First Presidency as to whether Hinckley had been accurately quoted to say “I don’t know a lot about it.” The reply he received from the LDS Church was clear, “The quotation you reference was taken out of context.”

He then wrote to TIME magazine asking them to reply to the Mormon Church’s allegation they had quoted President Hinckley out of context. TIME made it clear they stood by their story, and asked the interviewing reporter to reply to Wilson. Richard Ostling replied and provided a transcript of his conversation with President Hinckley which follows:

Q: Just another related question that comes up is the statements in the King Follett discourse by the Prophet.

Hinckley: Yeah

Q: ... about that, God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?

Hinckley: I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it. [emphasis added]

It appears clear President Hinckley wishes to avoid this aspect of Mormon doctrine and is willing to feign ignorance of his own church’s teaching to do so.¹⁰ For a complete report on the relevant exchange of correspondence, please see the article Dodging and Dissembling Prophet? (http://www.irr.org/mit/hinckley.html)

5. Training Missionaries to Proselytize under False Pretenses

From the previously mentioned interviews with Mormon Missionaries and conversations I’ve had with representatives of the Mormon Church on this subject, it would seem safe to conclude that Mormon Missionaries are not being taught that God was once a man like us. Subsequently, they cannot teach these things to investigators and they can legitimately claim ignorance of such teachings when confronted with this material while on their mission. Mormon leaders practically insure their missionaries are misrepresenting Mormon Church doctrines to potential converts.

Directly related to this is the omission of the section on Eternal Progression in the new Mormon missionary training manual – Preach my Gospel. In the previous materials used by the Mormon Missionaries in their house-to-house work, the fourth discussion was devoted to the topic of Eternal Progression. Eternal progression is not listed in the index of the new manual, and to my knowledge, is never discussed. The term does appear on page 59 with a list of “Other Terms That May Need Further Definition for Those you Teach.” Within the manual the terms exaltation and eternal life are both explained as “living with God forever in eternal families” (Preach my Gospel, pp. 53, 70). This is amplified in a list of “Key Definitions” which for exaltation has:

Exaltation: Eternal life in God’s presence; to become like our Father in Heaven and live in His presence. The greatest of all the gifts of God. Exaltation comes through the Atonement of Christ and through obedience to all the laws and ordinances of the gospel. (Preach my Gospel, p. 58)

There is no mention of God being a man like us, or men progressing to Godhood.

The result of Mormon leaders failing to disclose these disturbing doctrines, not teaching them to their own Missionaries, and the Mormon President’s public denials, is that many members of the Mormon Church may not know about these doctrines, or may likewise deny them. What should characterize our response to these issues?

How Can We Approach Mormons?

1. Approach them with awareness and affirmation

Be aware that fewer and fewer Mormons hold to or are even aware of the doctrine that God was once a man like us and that men can become Gods. Exercise caution and do not assume or accuse the Mormon of believing these things; there is a good chance they don’t. If a Mormon says, “I believe there is only one God, I believe that God has always been God,” affirm that belief, reinforce that is what the Bible teaches and therefore it is also what we believe. Take the time when appropriate to rehearse the biblical passages in Isaiah 44-46 and Deuteronomy 4:6 that teach this.

Now, we need to be careful that the Mormon is not using the same terminology and changing the definitions (this will be addressed in the next section), but it is possible for a member of the Mormon Church, especially if they are a new convert, to be unaware of, or to have rejected these particularly egregious and unbiblical aspects of Mormon teachings. When this is the case we need to encourage them to continue this movement away from false Mormon teaching. It is also possible the Mormon has retained biblical teachings about God he received earlier in his spiritual experience before being proselytized into the LDS Church. When this is the case, we need to affirm biblically correct beliefs, and help them see how such beliefs are irreconcilably different from official Mormon doctrine.

2. Challenge them with boldness and truth

If there is reason to believe the Mormon is not being honest in what he or she is affirming, if they are sharing terms but changing definitions, we need to gently, but boldly challenge them with this, and continue to ask them questions until what they truly believe comes out. We can be frank, without being contentious, abrasive, arrogant or mean. They key is persistent questioning that demonstrates you want to know what the Mormon truly believes and has been taught by his leaders. It will take boldness to do this, for if a Mormon affirms belief in the trinity, salvation by grace alone, Jesus as my Savior, there is only one God etc., it is not wise to accept unquestioningly their affirmations.

I saw this firsthand several years ago when some Mormon Missionaries visited our office. One young man, at that point within months of completing his two-year mission, asked me point blank, “Why don’t you accept us as Christians? We believe in salvation by grace alone too.” Surprised he would make such an affirmation I replied, “Are you saying that both of us can equally have eternal life in the presence of Heavenly Father through faith alone in Jesus Christ?” “Yes,” he replied, “that’s what we believe.” Being yet skeptical of his affirmation, I decided to phrase the question differently. “So, if you are a member of the Mormon Church, a faithful, temple-worthy Mormon who is married for time and eternity in the temple, and I, on the other hand, never become a Mormon but continue to put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ and live in obedience to him, trusting in God’s grace alone to save me, when we die, will we both end up in the same place?” As he replied, he looked both offended and surprised, “No, of course not. You can’t make it to the celestial kingdom if you never join the church.” “Ah then,” I said, “you don’t really believe in eternal life through faith alone, you need to do your part to ultimately be considered worthy of Heavenly Father’s presence. That’s what makes us different, and part of the reason why I cannot accept the Mormon Church as a Christian Church.”

I’ve had similar conversations since then, underscoring the need to be cautious and bold when a Mormon claims to believe “just like we do.” But boldness in and of itself is not enough.

3. Respond with compassion and care

As we are dealing with Mormons and are able to present material like this that is now being avoided or covered up, we should also clearly articulate how it continues to be an important, integral part of Mormon theology.¹¹ The Mormon Church affirms that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones. Well, how did he get that body of flesh and bones? The reason God the Father has a body of flesh and bones is because he was once a man just like us and worked his way to godhood. At one point he was not God, he was a mortal man, a man who lived, and died, according to some Mormon sources.¹²

And yet, as we talk about these beliefs we need to be compassionate and caring. The Mormon person needs to know that we value them as a person first, and consider their membership in the Mormon Church secondary. Apologetics is a tool we use to reach certain people who need to hear the gospel – we use it to open minds and hearts so the truth can get in and transform their lives. So what we learn about Mormonism, what we understand about the doctrinal system, what we discover about the changes, the errors, the cover-up, the lack of integrity – all that should simply be a tool that lets us more effectively and more compassionately reach out to these people. We should never use our knowledge as a sword with which to cut them to ribbons – that should never be our goal. In our ministry to Mormons, compassion and care needs to be predominant, and if at any point what we are feeling is “I just want to nail this person to the wall, I want to show them up, I’m so sick of the deception,” then it is probably a good time to stop the conversation because the Mormon will sense that attitude in you. However, if what is coming from you is a compassion and concern, a genuine care for who they are and a desire for their salvation in Jesus solely through the unmerited grace of God, they will also sense that and it will have as much impact as the information you are sharing.

Conclusion

Whether deliberately or unwittingly, Mormons on a regular basis fail to disclose Church teachings that are disturbing and most clearly place them outside the Christian tradition. Beneath the affable, families-are-forever, wholesome image, lies a disturbing pattern of cover-up, distortion and misrepresentation. This is all the more troubling because those in various leadership positions apparently feel justified in engaging in this deception. From the 50,000+ missionaries going door to door around the world, to Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley’s interaction with the media, doctrines that have distinguished and uniquely defined the Mormon religion are omitted, ignored or denied. When I asked one pair of Mormon missionaries if when they went door to door they clearly presented their unique teachings about God being a man who progressed to godhood and was married with a wife in heaven, they replied, “Of course we do not tell people that. If we told people about that stuff they would never let us in to talk to them.” When I followed up with, “Don’t you think that is a bit deceptive?”, they amiably replied, “No we have to give them milk before meat.”

One thing is certain, Mormon leaders have not repudiated Joseph Smith’s non-biblical teachings on the nature of God and continue to promote them, albeit selectively. This means the Mormon Church continues to hold to doctrines that make it decidedly non-Christian, while hiding these teachings from investigators, new members and even its own missionaries. This calls for boldness as we expose the disingenuousness of Mormon leaders, and discernment and gentle forthrightness as we draw Mormon people into truth, authenticity and spiritual worthiness through a restored relationship with the one true, immutable, ‘from everlasting to everlasting’ God.

— Joel B. Groat

Notes

[1] Missionary names changed to protect their identities.

[2]In his 2005 book, A Different Jesus (Wm B. Eerdmans, p. 145), Millet stated “God is an exalted man”. This continues to make it difficult to sustain the notion that either Millet personally, or the Mormon Church corporately, are moving away from Mormonism’s non-biblical and unchristian definition of God.

[3] Just as interesting is the date that Lorenzo Snow claimed to have received this revelation – in the spring of 1840. This is four years before Joseph gave the King Follet discourse (April 1844) which was not published until August of that same year. Snow said he shared his revelatory experience with Joseph Smith in 1843 in a confidential interview and received as a reply from Joseph Smith, “Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you.” (Presidents of the Church, 2003, p. 88). So, did Joseph influence Snow or did Snow influence Joseph? According to Snow, the idea was first planted in his head before he was a Mormon convert in 1836, when Joseph’s father, Joseph Smith, Sr. told him “you will become as great as you can possibly wish – even as great as God, and you cannot wish to be greater” (Improvement Era, June 1919, p. 654. Cited in Pres. of the Church, p. 88).

[4] This article has no author and appears to be recycled from the May 1995 Ensign article by Mormon Apostle Elder Dallin Oaks, entitled “Apostasy and Restoration.”

[5] The class structure and schedule was explained to me by a Mormon friend who is currently a bishop and has taught the class himself.

[6] In addition to the changes noted in the body of this article, another significant change to chapter 47 was the deletion of the following summary statement regarding the requirements for exaltation: “In other words, each person must endure in faithfulness, keeping all the Lord’s commandments until the end of his life on earth.” [emphasis added]. This change is consistent with increased promotion of the “folk” doctrine that assures Mormons they don’t need perfection in this life but will have millions of years if necessary to complete the perfection process after they die. While this is a popular and widely held belief among Mormon people, there is no support for this concept in any Mormon Scripture, in fact the exact opposite is taught.

[7] For attendance figures and other official info see: http://www.mormonmiracle.org/information.html. I attended the performance on June 15, 2006 and noted the lack of reference to the unique Mormon doctrines of God as once a man like us, men becoming Gods, God having a wife. The pageant also mocked the various Christian denominations of Joseph’s day, and omitted, among other things, Joseph using a gun to defend himself during the Carthage jail scene.

[8] For Sharon’s report and commentary see http://mormoncoffee.blogspot.com/2006/08/new-and-improved-king-follett.html.

[9] See for example, http://sacredorsecret.com/temples_tours_truth.htm, and Saturday, August 19, 2006 “The good, the bad, and the ugly” blog here: http://www.evidenceministries.blogspot.com/.

[10] President Hinckley’s artful dodges became readily apparent a short time later when he addressed an all-Mormon audience at their semi-annual General Conference. In what the Ostlings see as a pointed reference to those interviews, Hinckley assured his listeners, “None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine.” He added, “I think I understand them thoroughly.” The Ostlings note that the audience laughed understandingly. (Richard N. and Joan K. Ostling, Mormon America: The Power and the Promise, Harper San Francisco, 1999, p. 296)

[11] Some within the Christian community suggest these changes indicate the Mormon Church is rethinking its doctrines and moving toward more biblical teaching on the nature of God. I find it difficult to sustain this position in the face of recent Ensign articles and LDS Church manuals that I’ve cited that continue to promote the God was once a man doctrine to the general membership.

[12] See Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 132, which states, “As shown in this chapter, our Father in heaven was once a man as we are now, capable of physical death.”

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