Friday, October 19, 2007

Dinosaurs, the Bible, and Creation Proofs

Titanosaur

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This article was thanks to the CARM forum/discussion board and can be found in an ENN - Article.

Most complete new giant dinosaur found in Patagonia

RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - Brazilian and Argentine paleontologists have discovered the largely complete fossil of a new species of giant dinosaur that roamed what is now northern Patagonia about 80 million years ago.

The herbivorous Futalognkosaurus dukei measured an estimated 105 feet to 112 feet from head to tail and was as high as a four-storey building. It is one of the three biggest dinosaurs yet found in the world.

….

The find pointed to a new lineage of titanosaurs, with particularly bulky necks, he said.

"Its neck was very big in diameter, strong and huge."

Fossilized remains of an ecosystem from the same Late Cretaceous age, including well-preserved leaves and fish, were also found. The description was published in the latest issue of the annals of the Brazilian Academy of Sciences.

….

"The accumulation of fish and leaf fossils, as well as other dinosaurs around the find, is just something fantastic. Leaves and dinosaurs together is a great rarity," he told Reuters. "It's like a whole lost world for us."

He was referring to "The Lost World" by Arthur Conan Doyle, a classic tale set in a remote part of South America where a scientific expedition finds dinosaurs still roaming an isolated plateau.

Some of the leaves made part of the diet of the titanosaur and other specimens found there. The researchers said the fossilized ecosystem pointed to a warm and humid climate in Patagonia, which had forests during the Late Cretaceous period. The area is steppe-like now and almost bare of vegetation.

Researchers believe the carcass of the giant dinosaur, which died of unknown causes, its flesh devoured by predators, was washed into a nearby slow-flowing river, where it created a barrier, accumulating bones and leaves in its structure for many years until all became fossilized.

A fossil of a carnivorous theropod Megaraptor found at the site contained a complete and articulated arm with very large sickle-shaped claws. Previously, similar fragmented bones were interpreted as a foot, researchers said.

The joint Argentine-Brazilian project also works in the Brazilian state of Mato Grosso, where Kellner said an important find has been made but would be revealed at a later date.

Desert-like areas in Argentina are good for preserving fossils, while they are more difficult to find in the wetter soil in Brazil.

There are a few things I take issue with here, but they are minor. Every fossil find involves a river or a local flood. I just love it as a Young Earth Creationist (YEC) to here this because it is at every description of multiple fossil finds. In fact, all the fossils found are in flood deposits. Hmmm, could it be, well now… let’s see… could it be – The Flood! At any rate, I am going to post two small blurbs I wrote on matter dealing with dinosaurs. Enjoy:

Dinosaurs and the Bible?

Lets start this paper out by playing a game. The game is “Pin the Tail on the Donkey.” Except we don’t have a donkey, but I’m sure you can figure it out.

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Of course, you are probably wondering why I am displaying these comical pictures, and what, if anything these pictures have to do with dinosaurs and the Bible! Let me explain. The ancient record of a man named Job is found in the Bible. It goes back to a time over 2,000 years before Christ. The fascinating story of Job is one of the oldest pieces of literature on earth. It was written down just a few hundred years after the flood of Noah’s time.

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Now, I know you are thinking to yourself, “Flood!? Noah!? Bible!? Dinosaurs and man co-existing is outrages by evolutionary terms, I mean, dinosaurs died out at least 64 million years ago! And man didn’t show up on the evolutionary scene till about 1 to 4 million years ago (depending on what evolutionary tree you accept).” Yes, I know this sounds incredible, but some amazing items from history and archaeology are mounting the evidence against this belief that man and dino are separated by massive amounts of time and geological layers. Unfortunately, this particular paper does not deal with this topic of history and archaeology for proving the co-existence of dino and man.

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This writing only deals with the Bible’s take on dino and man. So lets get to it. In the 40th chapter of Job’s account, we see the record of the Creator Himself speaking to job. He is drawing Job’s attention to one of the wonders of the creation. Let’s read it.

“Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you…” (verse 15)

Behemoth in the Hebrew simply means large beast. Most bibles have a marginal note by this verse explaining that this creature was most likely an elephant or hippopotamus (half of the above drawings explained!). God is saying to Job, “take a good look at this creature. I am going to demonstrate something to you.”

“He eats Grass like an ox.” (Verse 15)

The animal must be a vegetarian, but it’s likely larger than an ox.

“See now, the strength is in his hips [or loins].” (Verse 16)

This critter must have powerful legs. So it could be an elephant.

“His power is in his stomach muscles.” (Verse 16)

He apparently has a massive mid-section. If that was all we had to go on we could rightly assume Job may very well be looking at a hippo. But let’s read on.

“He moves his tail like a cedar.” (Verse 17)

Now we have a problem (and the answer to the drawings above). Have you noticed something distinctive about cedar trees? They are big aren’t they? Now have you seen a tail of an elephant or a hippo? It doesn’t seem that a cedar tree is a very appropriate analogy does it. Let’s re-read – and finish – the verses of study.

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Genus Name: Seismosaurus ("earth shaker lizard")
Type Species: * S. hallorum (Gillette, 1991)
Length: about 120 feet (37 meters)
Weight: 30-70 tons
Time: 155-145 million years ago (Late Jurassic) [Debatable]
Place: New Mexico
Diet: plant-eater (herbivore)

Job 40: 15-24 (KJV)

15 Behold now behemoth [large beast], which I made with thee [all animals and Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day]; he eateth grass as an ox [vegetarian]. 16 Lo now, his strength [is] in his loins [large, powerful legs], and his force [is] in the navel of his belly [large mid-section.] 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar [huge tail]: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones [are as] strong pieces of brass [big bones]; his bones [are] like bars of iron [again, big bones]. 19 He [is] the chief of the ways of God [largest or mightiest creation]: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him [only God can kill him]. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens [we have all seen drawings of these beasts halfway in the water with their head up eating the vegetation on the sides of the banks]. 22 The shady trees cover him [with] their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about [again, in a swamp, or the like]. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, [and] hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth [the NASB says in v. 23: “if a river rages, he is not alarmed. He is confidant, though the Jordan rushes to his mouth”. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares [you cannot catch him].

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Paraphrase Bible

Although the monstrous creature was obviously vegetarian, its size was overwhelming. Its hips were built to withstand the enormous force of each pounding step and its midsection was a mass of muscle. Its gigantic tail extended far behind, not unlike a giant cedar tree swaying behind its body. Its bones were built like steel girders with ribs like iron bars to support his enormous weight. Surely, this was the greatest among the creatures ever to roam the swamps and rivers of the earth.

Fresh dinosaur bones found?

Most people think that all known dinosaur bones are fossils, and that this proves dinosaurs died out millions of years ago. Yet “fresh”, unfossilized, dinosaur bones have been found, suggesting that dinosaurs might have lived recently.

In northwestern Alaska in 1961 a geologist found a bed of dinosaur bones in unpermineralized (“unfossilized”) condition. (See Journal of Paleontology, vol. 61 no. 6, 1986–7, pages 198–200.)

In another case, a young Inuit (Canadian Eskimo) who was working with scientists from Newfoundland's Memorial University in 1987 on Bylot Island found part of a lower jaw of a duckbill dinosaur. It too was in fresh condition.

Good enough to compare with chicken!

The journal Science on December 24, 1993 (pages 2020–2023) reported on the amazing preservation of the bones of a young duckbill dinosaur found in Montana. Under a microscope, the fine structure of the bones was seen to have been preserved to such an extent that cell characteristics could be compared with cells of chicken bone.

Claudia Barreto and others said, “In the dinosaur specimens, the same high degree of structural resolution can be seen as in modern specimens.” Even the calcium and phosphorus ratios were comparable. In other words, these appeared to be fresh bones, not fossilized — even though they are claimed to be more than 70 million years old.

Such findings cast serious doubt on the millions of years claimed for the dinosaurs.

Blood Cells & Protein

By using immunological tests, Gerard Muyzer of Leiden University in the Netherlands, isolated samples from some fresh T-Rex bone that had a specific bone protein (osteocalcin) in them. These proteins, reported in Geology magazine (Oct. 1992), are very unstable, and cannot last for very many years once the creature who carries them dies [perm-a-freeze cannot account for the longevity evolution gives to these proteins]. The photo below is a newer find where malleable flesh and intact blood cells are throughout.

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Not only dino bones!

Fresh-looking organic remains are not restricted to dinosaur bones. A “frozen forest” found on Axel Heiberg Island in the Canadian Arctic was claimed to be 45 million years old. Yet wood and leaf debris were surprisingly well preserved. The plant material was not petrified, and the logs were reported to be wood that could be sawn and burned.

Some interesting burial stones have been found for many, many years down in South America. They are commonly referred to as Ica burial stones. These people (long ago) drew every thing about their lives and had them buried with them. Some even depict man and dinosaur co-existing (there is much evidence of this, but what I will show here will suffice.

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It will be interesting to see if we – as we find more preserved fossil skeletons of these giant beasts – if they were indeed able to feed their young in this way. I think we will find proof of such things soon. There is already scientific discussion that these beasts were warm blooded and not reptiles. If memory serves me there is talk of four-chambered hearts in these giant animals. At any rate, the Ica stones seem to show eyewitness testimony of such:

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Here is a large rock with drawing on all sides:

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This is a hammer encrusted with Cretaceous rock:

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There is just sooo much to show and discuss on this issue, but you should watch these videos if you have the time to see “for yourself”, my favorite is the trip this guy went on for many purposes (history, knowledge, etc) but one in the back of his mind was apparently confirmation of a YEC’s photo or video so he could in person verify it. HOW FUN!

Trip to Temples in Cambodia??? (1000[+]-yr-old carving in the Ta Prohm temple of Angkor Wat) -- (3-minutes)

A decent presentation of archaeological evidences connecting man and dino’s coexistence (27 minutes)

A blurb from Ken Ham and others on the evidence for man coexisting with dinosaurs (9-minutes).

Interview of Michael Cremo by a radio conspiracy guy (Coast to Coast Radio Show), I do not agree wioth some of the UFO conclusions the radio host tries to pull from this evidence. Nor do I agree with Michael Cremo that mankind is 2-billion years old. I want the listener to zero in just on the evidence and the discussion about all the evidene found that because of biases were never discussed widely. (10-minutes long)

A more biblically based presentation of Dinosaurs in the Bible as well as archaeological proofs (51 minutes)